WH Pity Points

[aaaawesome]

morally proper.

umm, video games aren't exactly the shining star of morality.

*thinks of people killing squirrels in Eljune*

[metryinghard]

the murder of logic in that math post made me cry. WH 2500/2k is the best route, everyone is just mad it all makes us look like a bunch of pveligs.

Couldn't agree more. I love that Empire cooperates enough to get 2k, 2k each same-faction match.

pvemps sighted!

[suuka17]

This issue seems to be heated, tbh no side is really right, both sides have a morality standpoint. Me I just go with the flow, if they want to split faction resources then I really don't feel like being roflstomped by other people and flamed openly, if they want to kill each other that's cool too. You can argue both sides almost too perfection but at the end of the day the most powerful players in that WH with same faction are gonna decide what's done, might as well let the people who want to be political run it how they want, IMO we need more go with the flow type people

[leaguemiriamel]

On average, you're all making the assumption that it's pvp skills that win the day in WH, and that improving them will guarantee victory, and therefore proceed to bemoan how badly letting people get pity points is going to wreck pvp skill of a faction.

You're right, it doesn't ruin PvP for the faction. However, it does create certain problems that I discussed previously.

1) Both factions tend to share points. That's pretty much an established fact.

Actually, I've noticed a lot more matches lately where pity points are not given. Usually it's when people are concentrating more on PvP and consequentially they're seeming to be more amicable matches.

Although, I wanna be hopeful and think there's a paradigm shift happening because of our conversation, but that's just me being hopeful. :3

Bottom line; you've all overblown this far too much as a discussion of whether it's morally proper or not to let the other team get points, rather than whether it's beneficial

I would urge you to reconsider this statement. If we ignore the question of whether something is "morally proper", and skip to the question of it if something is "beneficial", we become morally corrupt. I know you're an ethical person and know you didn't mean it like that, but still, we shouldn't dismiss in-game ethics so quickly. It's an important topic, and one we have to take pretty seriously.

And most of the arguments go to personal preference rather than any deep material proof.

I think to some extent there has to be some consensus instead of "personal preference", especially since it's entirely possible for one person to veto pity points by refusing to let the opposing force cap the flag.

Even the math presented takes into account only ideal circumstances, and is by that basis FLAWED.

The math presented actually presents the two most opposite scenarios -- 2500/0 and 2500/2000. Sure, there will always be variables that can be thrown in, but I challenge you to mention one that 1) is not corrected by pseudo-random team forming and thereby absorbed into statistical 50/50 chance over time or 2) not equally applied to both teams during a match.

(overall post by sdebeli32)

Thank you for your post, and leave it to a guildie to give a retort that gave me the most to think about! x)

[leaguemiriamel]

This issue seems to be heated, tbh no side is really right, both sides have a morality standpoint. Me I just go with the flow, if they want to split faction resources then I really don't feel like being roflstomped by other people and flamed openly, if they want to kill each other that's cool too. You can argue both sides almost too perfection but at the end of the day the most powerful players in that WH with same faction are gonna decide what's done, might as well let the people who want to be political run it how they want, IMO we need more go with the flow type people :mrgreen:

I'm actually glad that people know that this is an issue of opinion now. A few weeks ago, people who thought pity points were bad were demonized for trying to hurt the faction. Now we know both sides. Also, I'm glad there are people like you who see that there are good people on each side of the issue. :3

And yeah, it was heated, but I think it's calming down a lot now -- people got to get a lot of what they felt off their chests. It wasn't pretty, but I think we're better off now. ^_^

[metryinghard]

imho, same faction unbalanced teams can be fixed by not capping all three flags. sure wh will take an extended time to finish but this provides more scores for the handicapped team and more kills for the dominating team. if they can defend successfully 1 flag they can reach up to 1.5k pts before wh ends. the problem arises when the team who completely dominates the other becomes greedy.

just play wh like it's your last. you don't go into a war without weapons. victory loves preparation

[hulokeruli]

the murder of logic in that math post made me cry. WH 2500/2k is the best route, everyone is just mad it all makes us look like a bunch of pveligs.

Couldn't agree more. I love that Empire cooperates enough to get 2k, 2k each same-faction match.

pvemps sighted!

Do you mean pvpwimps?

[kagledas1]

Here's the scenario: It's league vs. league or empire vs. empire in Witch's Hollow. One team is beating the other by a significant margin. The losing team asks "can you let us have 2k?" On Nezeb League, the term "pity points" for this phenomenon has stuck, and it's something I've noticed happening about two-thirds of every league/league match I go to.

I personally think this is exploiting the game, it's poor gamesmanship, and it's unethical and wrong. It discourages people from putting the effort into winning and rewards people for failure, which all ultimately turns WH from a good war game into just a way to farm signs of victory. There's really nothing to gain from it, since you have 140 matches a week to gain 6500 signs of victory, which is a rate of less than 50 signs per match for maxing out your right halves.

I think we need a serious paradigm shift, at least on Nezeb League, to shed ourselves of this failed notion that rewarding people for failure under the guise of "helping our faction" is only hurting the players of our faction in the long run. We need to regain that competitive edge we used to have to start gaining ground on the other faction again, and this needs to start by how we conduct ourselves in WH. It makes me sick seeing that people, many of whom I respect, are willing to cheat like this just a few extra signs.

(I'm taking a bit of a risk here starting up a potentially heated conversation, so please help me out by keeping civil: don't use personal attacks or publicly call specific people out on anything. If you disagree, by all means, share your reasons, but be nice. ^^)

If this is your opinion why do you do coverbids on ac every week?

I personally think this is exploiting the game, it's poor gamesmanship, and it's unethical and wrong. It discourages people from putting the effort into winning and rewards people for failure, which all ultimately turns AC from a good war game into just a way to farm Realgar.

I think you need a serious paradigm shift, at least on Esperanza, to shed yourselves of this failed notion that rewarding people for failure under the guise of "helping our guild" is only hurting the players of your guild in the long run. You need to regain that competitive edge to start gaining ground on the other guilds, and this needs to start by how you conduct yourselves in AC. It makes me sick seeing that people, many of whom I respect, are willing to cheat like this just a few extra grains of realgar.

(I'm taking a bit of a risk here starting up a potentially getting deleted post.But please dont take it to serious, i just thought this was the best/funnier way to dissagree with you )

[aaaawesome]

just play wh like it's your last.

lololol
this reminded me of this

[someoneelse222]

This concept is getting incredibly annoying, its wasting time and creates alot of worthless people.

I cant tell you the number of players i know who ,when on the losing side, [I Have a Potty Mouth] and moan and whine, but so conveniently *forget* to mention giving pity points to the losing side when theyre on a team that can carry them.

alot of ppl trying to hide behind the excuse of improving same faction members for this pity point concept, when all you're really looking for is a guarantee for yourself. You dont care about other ppl.

If u all really care so much about helping same faction members why do you still fight in MI? why not evenly distribute the realgar in AC? why not help all same faction members reach higher sectors of a4 instead of trying to grind to the furthest sectors in your perferred partys and leave new 51s behind? Why create an AH when u can just hand out better gear drops you dont need to ppl who need it? one lvl 13 rune could be 256 lvl 5 runes for ppl who run around in 2s and 3s.

*yea some ppl are nice like that on each side, but its definitely not the same ppl begging for wh pity points.

Lemme ponder this: Does the winning side ask for the 2500 pity points?

No they dont, they go out and cap the points and hold them. (inbanoimnotalwaysonthewinningside)

IMO ppl should just forget the concept exists. ive lost a couple of easily winnable whs, becuase half the raid never tried and just believed in pity points. and then, these ppl [I have a potty mouth] like no one else when they realise the other side isnt going to stop and let them magically reach 2k.

On the issue of game ethics: if the game wanted to give the losing side 100, it would have. If EVERYONE was legitimately trying to do their part (or as much as they could) i would be very much more acceptable of this 20-25 idea, but that is certainly not what it has become. Players are becoming even more afk, and even more half-assed in ALL matchups since this term has been introduced. I wanna expand this concept. why should we even bother with whs? GMs should jsut give us 20 left halves a day. but why stop there? GMs should just hand us the wh gear.

yea cause we deserve it *pity us*

btw, lfg A4 i want pity 51 gears, someone invite me to a better guild i deserve pity realgars. kthx /afk

TL;DR
Its a shame that pity points stuck as the name for what it really is: "I expect a hand out"